Who goes to heaven? Strike that. What is heaven?
The bible calls heaven:____
Describes it as:_____
Says we'll be in heaven when/if/because/as a result of/due to:_____
My Father talks about my mom's mom sometimes, and each time he goes quiet. Because he repeats himself on a regular basis, his anecdote about 'the edge of her wings tickling the end of your nose' lost some of it's factuality. A statement only needs repeating if it requires further understanding - otherwise, they're selling something. Maybe he's just reliving her glow. In any case, he laments the fact that she's not in heaven because she never accepted Jesus. She was the best person around, yet she's condemned to eternal torment because God said 'YOU GET ONE SHOT. DON'T MESS UP' and she did. It's such a simple key! "Jesus: Yes" and you're in.
This thinking, this perception of the One True God is repulsive. It's been manufactured by manipulators, by thinkers who couldn't believe without seeing, by those who have never experienced the presence of God. Because most Christians have only an academic understanding of God (a superficial one at that), who God is and how he works have so many iterations that without a heart for truth, all the heads in this world will never agree about his depths.
I receive the Truth my Father tells me. But the truth my dad tells me is based on his interpretation of the bible, the cold and lifeless word that says a lot of shtuff that's really hard to wade through.
The world cannot come to any consensus because nobody believes in anything consistent - every image of God is graven and dead, worshiped thanks to tradition, and maintained for that reason. Think Fiddler on the Roof. But the God I follow is alive and well, consistent and true, a provider and one who loves me whenever I deign consider Him. He's the best husband, and I'm ... well, learning to maintain my walk at his side. My heart's for him. So what's heaven after this life if we walk every day with Jesus now? Do I muddle along saying 'I think God wants me to do such and such', just waiting for my body to pass away so I can see Jesus with my eyes? Or whatever I'll see with?
His closeness and the depth of his forgiveness are touted, but our understanding of what it means and looks like to move with him in freedom are not exemplified. I am alive, and I am with Him. He says 'I am that I am', and I'm just like that, made in that image, in Him, associating with Him, so I, too, Am that I Am. Somewhere in there 'I'm just a guy' comes into play and overrides all the promises, blessings, amens, life-saving, fruit-bearing, miracle-induced belief that we say we believe. Is my faith so small? Jesus came as a man so I wouldn't have to be small-minded (self-conscious) anymore. I take no thought for myself, rather I am God conscious. I am aware of this world and operating within it but my existence is elsewhere, running with the horsemen and mounting on wings like eagles.
Definitions are basic because communication is based on mutual understanding of shared meaning. Building blocks. Is heaven a place? Is 'good' a result of my behavior? Is Jesus alive in the conventional sense or in some other way? What is hell, who is the devil, what are the functions of angels, why do I get headaches, did God make AIDS, what is war, why did my mother die so young, why is my boss such an ass, why do I hate myself for being type A, why is my church splitting and falling apart even though we keep all his statutes and are good people?
Who am I?
Forget all you know about God, and pretend you are not.
Suddenly you have sensation, and find you're being fashioned into exactly what someone wants.
Then you're animated. You move and are elated that you're living. He's elated too, simply that you are. He's also satisfied that he managed to make precisely what he needed. You bring him satisfaction just .because.
You love him with all of you, and he reciprocates, giving you everything you need, which is easy, because your heart is connected directly with his, so his wants are yours. Then you see the neighbor moving in. He's super-showy and speaks like greased honey. Suddenly you find yourself distracted by the things he has, by getting and having them. You wonder why your love doesn't speak as well as he does. You see that your guy has shortcomings that aren't a big deal, really, but they bug you nonetheless. He tells you that the neighbor isn't for you, that he's deceptive and won't be able to provide the way you need to be provided for. You feel hemmed in and bored with this boring no-nonsense life of boredom. You imagine the adventures you could have with the neighbor, but you don't speak of those. You tell him you're leaving and he doesn't stop you; he's never stopped you from doing anything. He's told you from the beginning that you're absolutely free to do as you will, and that you can return whenever you wish. You leave. Your heart pounds as you walk next door and you feel a little sick inside, but you brush it away because this is super exciting. You knock on the door and Greasy McLiesalot answers, a fake shock registering in his eyes. He steps aside for you to enter.
____
With whom do you relate and where do you find you're living? Who do you love, in your heart, and to whom do you show it? What is your hope? If you are a servant of your fellow man for the sake of service, are you not living in the gifts you were given? A heart full of unconditional Love is a heart full of God. And where there is God there is peace, and where there is true peace there is heaven. When this body passes the 'Heaven of the Clouds' could look like a shanty town, and our mansions could be double-wides and nobody there would care because true peace is steadfast despite appearances. If I had decided to be satisfied with being close to God, that beautiful life and liberty, I'd be happy to live in near-squalor. To wake each day with the prospect, the certainty, of participating in splendor, honor, and glory and not just seeing them displayed would change your world, because how you see is how you experience the world. It's interesting that I'm talking about heaven like it's this life, like they're comparable. Well, if God's present then here's everything He is. And just like that, heaven came near.
You don't have to reach and strive for something, you don't have to wait to be satisfied or approved. You needn't spend your days in anticipation of 'the end' because God was and is and will be forever the same: time isn't an issue with him; why's it an issue with us? 'Because we're finite!' you justify. You can be if you want, I'd rather expand beyond the edge of my thinking, my body, my understanding, my limited will, my trivial hopes. I expect God and I'M NOT EVER TRULY DISAPPOINTED because He knows me far better than I know myself. So I look for Him, and when I look for Him I find him. So much of the christian faith is talktalktalk, waiting to be hit upside the head with something out of the norm. But God's the norm. We've somehow settled into a mundane existence, but there's nothing mundane about it. I'm lit up by that representation of Heaven. It's the state of your heart that determines your daily trajectory, and at any time you can turn back to him. What do you have to lose? Face? With your fellow man who are in the same boat, subject to the same Loving Justice as you? There's a different set of scales in there. Let God judge man, and let the scales fall off your eyes - you cannot determine good or evil, and if you are, you're picking from the lesser tree. I promise you don't want to be there. You do You in God, seeking the Truth that gives LIFE, not the truth that is impressive to people who are also trying to impress others. You do You in God because that's all you can do. You cannot change another man, or make him do anything. If your happiness is based on the life or action of others, you will be endlessly up and down in satisfaction. God is constant and our walk in Him is ever forward, ever onward, even when it feels like we're not moving. I am Alive! We are Living! We walk toward Him, but we require relationship because when I fall I need arms to help me up. And if you're also in His image, are they not the hands of my father lifting me up? It's hardly blasphemy to bring God to this plane - he's been here, lived and hung out here; he actually made the place. It'd be his house if He hadn't chosen to inhabit you and I. I don't know what the hell blasphemy is if God is all powerful and made us soveriegn.
All this started with a thought about heaven and hell. If you choose to see God, you'll find how he's working for you and with you. If you choose to be strong in your own right, you'll feel empty and wasted, because you are. Hell isn't what we've been taught, heaven is actually close and available. God's real and wonderful. His blessings are active. You are empowered because of Him! Be Incredible, because you've already won. Today's not against you. And when tomorrow is today, that too will be for you, odds in your favor; you're actually guaranteed the win. Booyah.
"This thinking, this perception of the One True God is repulsive. It's been manufactured by manipulators, by thinkers who couldn't believe without seeing, by those who have never experienced the presence of God."
ReplyDeleteI think you should be careful about making statements like that. Certainly, this is a doctrine that can be (and has been) abused, but there are centuries of godly men and women who have wrestled with the issues of heaven and hell and have come to conclusions different than what you espouse above. There's room for both views under the umbrella of "Christianity," and to call certain beliefs "manufactured" and the people who hold them "people who have never experienced the presence of God" is either incredibly misinformed or incredibly arrogant. The vast majority of Christians through the centuries have believed in a literal, eternal hell. Early church fathers like Athanasius, Augustine, then later Calvin, Luther, Arminus all believed and warned of an eternal hell for those who rejected Christ. These are all men who served the same God as us and had the same Holy Spirit to guide them. Dare we assume that we have greater revelation than so many who have gone before? Dare we label such giants of the faith as "those who have never experienced the presence of God?" I hope not.
I have no problem with your conclusion, though I disagree with it. As I said, there's room for lots of disagreement in our spiritual family. I do have a problem with our conclusion if it excludes those who have gone before or those who disagree. (Personally, I see the biblical view of heaven and hell as both here and later. As both temporal and eternal).
(That comment was from Stephen. I signed in with Google but for some reason it still says, "Unknown." Weird.) BTW, I still love your mind. :)
ReplyDeleteAlso, "But the truth my dad tells me is based on his interpretation of the bible, the cold and lifeless word that says a lot of shtuff that's really hard to wade through."
ReplyDeleteThe Bible is anything but cold and lifeless! And yes, it's difficult to wade through, but that's where the Spirit helps us and where we can help one another. The Father has given us revelation through His Word AND His Spirit. We need them both! The Spirit tempers the Word and vice versa.
I really like the Quadrilateral approach Wesley came up with to help us understand how we go about making sense of our lives.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesleyan_Quadrilateral)
-Stephen
I read that part differently. What is repulsive is the idea that without acceptance, you automatically "go to Hell", that you will burn in a fiery, sulfurous darkness for eternity. That can't possibly be the way of God. There are/will/have been plenty of amazing people who will never figure out the path back to God and to think that they don't have a shot at the eternal is absurd.
ReplyDeleteI have had the "fear of God" on my mind the past few days and it breaks down into two different areas for me. The fear of those who willfully defy God and the fear that upholds reverence for what he has done and what he can do. The above situation creates a third category that I don't see to be true, a fear that results from punishing the blind(?) when they have not performed the actions that lead to such consequences. If God can allow room for even those that defy Him most to walk back into his Light without question, then I don't see this happening. It just doesn't align.
"God is constant and our walk in Him is ever forward, ever onward, even when it feels like we're not moving. I am Alive! We are Living! We walk toward Him, but we require relationship because when I fall I need arms to help me up. And if you're also in His image, are they not the hands of my father lifting me up?"
--I was incredibly moved by this. If the Lord is in, no, if he IS everyone and everything that I encounter daily, how on Earth can I possibly bring anything but joy/love/understanding/respect/thoughtfulness/etc to every moment. This isn't just the people I interact with or the situations that I happen upon, it includes myself. To discount anyone or anything, to bring a negativity to myself, think that I am not enough is a mistake. One that I can walk through and grow from, but a mistake.
Danielle - I think that you're onto something Paul talks about in Romans 2 - "when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus."
ReplyDeletePaul seems to be hinting that those who have never heard of Christ will be judged by what they do know. In other words, even if they've never stepped foot in a church or read the bible, they can still live in a way that is pleasing to God by "the law written on their hearts." At the same time, one chapter earlier Paul makes it clear that God has made Himself known through His creation "so that men are without excuse."
This is an encouraging and somber thought to me.
It's encouraging to me because God isn't just looking to "zap" people who don't know Jesus, but that He is actually wooing them to Himself all the time, much like Hans wrote in the paragraph that moved you so much. It's somber because it reminds me me that God is fair, and there will be people who choose to "love the darkness rather than the light," (John 1). So I have to live as a reflection of the light in hopes of pointing people to Jesus. -Stephen
Living in Jesus is living free, because Jesus is Grace. Grace to simply live. Stephen, you talk about Christianese often: our very concepts are so indoctrinated that they become stale. Jesus Lives, Grace, Sovereignty, Sin - they all have connotations that are neither rethought nor sought out because we assume (because it's been figured out by people better, smarter, and faster than us) that yep they got it. But my faith is a walk for me. If I'ma need water, I'm going to ask who has water. And if nobody knows where to find it, I'm going find me a dousing rod in faith that my father provides. You said we need to gather because of preaching - where the word comes through a personality - so, only together and moving can we find life. I judge my dad harshly, and my vehemence toward the faith of those who've gone before isn't directed at them: it's directed at the bastardization of the Life Giving Spirit that is available and has been compromised. Who do you know that fellowships our father in spirit and in truth? Who doesn't look like anyone else? Who is undignified? These things are possible, (We're Supposed to attract attention because we're different) but they only happen when we MOVE toward the light and stop talking about it. When we get together for meals and when we share our stories and aren't afraid of one another's faces. I'm a damned hypocrite, but I find myself in God and can look at my actions objectively. So I grow.
ReplyDeleteI think you like my mind because my view of things is fresh. I know you schooled and are in the word all the time, but I speak of life, not just The Walking Christians. (Pop culture zombie reference)
The faith I witness with my eyes, and the life I bear witness to with my spirit is desiccated. It's been lost because a way has been lost. Men (I) don't honor yet expect honor. Men (I) don't invest and expect returns. Men do what they have always done because it's safe, because God is distant, because either heaven or hell or God's not Really active in my life so I'll do whatever my days are all the same anyway because it's knowable, analyzable, low-risk, in-line with my friends, not too public, and won't demand too much of MY time because I am the creator and I live to serve myself.
All of this can get so academic, and where did Satan fall? Like lightning, right into man's brain, where God gave us the free will to subject ourselves to him or subject ourselves to no one. But we can't serve both God and mammon. I only have one crown and I must lay it at Christ's feet daily.
Where I stand, in a place of desperation (for fellowship, for lifeblood: not just talk), is a place where I will dare to do most anything for a sign of life. You want to meet every morning at 5am to fellowship a brother? I had this kind of love, this commitment to a way, to a brilliance and openness that transcended the mundane, and I left it. And I fell to hell because then there was nothing. I was in darkness and cried with all of me 'Why have you forsaken me?!', blaming him, blaming me because I had actively turned my back on life, like a plant denying it's natural process and turning from the light. It was retarded. And perfect, because not having done so I could never appreciate what it means to be built up in one another. What is it that Christ ascended but that he first descended? I only have a puff of understanding on that, but I can say rising to a management position when you're middle-class whitebread ain't no thing. To lose all you have and are and to find the end of yourself, to get your bearing there, and to rise again is to know life. There's a reason PK's have a hard go of it: they yearn for something that isn't The Christian Life, anything that breathes, because (I have found) churches hardly breathe.
My God is Intimate and Infinite, and shows himself better than I fathom. The grandmother I wrote of I do not remember, but I've encountered her and she is not peaceless. I might make outlandish claims in a heated moment, but what started this string of conversation? A spark! Strike and Ignite! Where does our vision not match? We have different personalities, so we preach differently, but our God is of one vision! We are one body! Our eyesight and spirits MUST align, or we are disjointed; becoming, but disjointed. My faith is not yet what it will be, but I MUST WALK FORWARD. If it's loud or offensive, I declare the Glory of God because offenses are not of Him and must be burned for the edification of His church (this means me). His face is bright, and we don't like it because to look at him is to see the extent to which I go to ignore him. And I am convicted; so convicted I'll kill (in my heart) the one who brought this to my attention. A sin (over which I have no control), and so I am driven to repentence, to find the spirit of Truth who will deliver me from the bondage of my addiction to daytime television, or overindulging, or simple passivity when the Spirit of God moves upon the face of the deep! And I'm free!
ReplyDeleteHeaven is for everyone, and it's freaking exclusive because the road is damned narrow and everyone's afraid. I seem arrogant, but I'm learning how to receive my Father, and this is through an atypical walk. I'm less afraid, and less afraid, and more of Him and More of Him: Christ must increase, I must decrease.
There is passion in Christ, empowerment to illuminate, produce, imagine, create, disarm, tear down strongholds, and be loosed to be all that we are! It's not self help! It's help from Above! But you must Choose. You must choose. People think they're powerless, but it's because they've lost vision. Your choice changes your very eyesight. Cut ties, seek submission, repent because you're not your own, dare to ask God for the things your heart desires and find that He is faithful! You are liberated!
picked this up somewhere: the biggest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. He does, but he's not to fear. He's a joke. God's won, just sometimes we think the war's still on. There is a very real battle in that moment or day, one that can be won or lost, but you must stand and fight then. Grow in longevity of faith against all principalities: your reasons, justifications, persuasions, manipulations. Trust your Lord your God and Stand firm! Even if you're an ass, God'll work through it for everyone. DO NOT COMPROMISE the word. To grant a concession is to give back land to the oppressor. You say there's room for disagreement in the body. The Jews call the bickering of rabbis love, because their perspectives come together to form a whole; but this is because they are pursuing Truth. Churches split because people don't walk in grace, because they hold to the law, and because they perceive a finite God. A family doesn't break unless it's riven by someone's unhealable offense; a body doesn't break unless it's broken on something. Luckily, the body heals itself. And it's all perfect, because, if we receive again, it all becomes seed for newly turned ground, and bread for sharing and sustenance. Today's bread, every situation will grow me and strengthen for the darkness and for the morrow. I'm well-provided for, and nothing is left to chance. I don't believe in Luck, I believe in Love.
All that to say I can't convince a man of anything, believe me. Really, it's true. He must respond, react, or receive it of his own volition whenever he chooses. But God is the God of Life, and when this physical body he gave me is no more, I will still worship Him in Spirit and in Truth, whatever that looks like.
Stephen,
ReplyDeleteYour first comments are kind to those with differing opinions, but I wonder what God Himself had to say about these scenarios? What has He written in the Bible for us to use as a steady guide when considering the various ideas about heaven and hell and everything else on earth?
Catie - I think that's the most important question we can ask, and honestly, it will probably take us more than our lifetimes to understand it all fully! As I study the Bible, I do believe that there will be an eternal heaven and an eternal hell. I think God's Word makes that much clear. I also think that His Word makes it clear that only through Christ can we experience eternal life, which begins the moment we repent of our Sin and acknowledge Christ's Lordship over us. Is there hope for those who have never heard the name of Jesus? I think there might be, as I alluded to in the Romans passage above. But in my life, most of the people I know and love who don't know Jesus have heard His Gospel, but have rejected Him. That's sobering, to me. Because if, as Paul hinted at in Romans, we are judged according to the revelation we have received, then my friends who have heard the Gospel will be judged more harshly than those (say, a tribesman in some remote section of the Amazon) who have never heard. And I will be judged even more harshly than they, because I have devoted my life to studying God's Word and daring to teach it to others as a pastor. So on those days when I choose Sin rather than Christ, I am the "chief of sinners," like Paul said he was in 1 Timothy.
ReplyDelete"But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."
-Stephen